Kane County Reporter

City of Aurora Historic Preservation Commission Met Dec. 17.

Here is the minutes provided by the commission:

CALL TO ORDER

Chairman Miller called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. and stated the following:

On June 26, 2020, the Governor of Illinois issued a statewide disaster declaration related to public health concerns. As head of this body, I have determined that an in-person meeting or a meeting otherwise conducted in accordance with the Open Meetings Act is neither practical nor prudent because of the disaster. This meeting will be conducted by Internet teleconference without the physical presence of a quorum. Prior to the commencement of this meeting, all members of this body were verified and can see and hear one another.

I further find that the physical presence of members of the public is not feasible at this meeting due to the disaster, and more specifically, the practical difficulties associated with accommodating the public in an accessible hygienic location that allows for appropriate social distancing. Alternative arrangements have been made to allow the public to contemporaneously hear all discussion and roll call votes live on the City’s official website, on Facebook, and via Zoom teleconference. Notice of these arrangements have been given in accordance with the Open Meetings Act. The public may address this body consistent with the rules previously adopted and recorded and as adapted by Mayoral order.

Jill Morgan, Planner, is physically present at our regular meeting location as those terms are defined by Resolution R20-124.

All votes shall be conducted by roll call and a verbatim record of this meeting shall be made and maintained in accordance with the Open Meetings Act.

ROLL CALL

The following Preservation Commission members were present: Justyn Arnold, Fernando Castrejon, Jen Del Debbio, Amber Foster, Seth Hoffman, Dan Miller, Simon Munoz, Al Signorelli and Mike Walker. Kristin Ludwig called in and excused herself from the meeting.

OTHERS PRESENT

The following staff members were present: Mrs. Morgan and Mrs. Jackson.

OTHERS PRESENT: Shawn Bolger (224 Blackhawk Street) and Victor Ramos (451

N. View Street).

APPROVAL OF MINUTES

20-0861 Approval of the minutes for the Historic Preservation Commission meeting on November 12, 2020.

A motion was made by Mr. Signorelli, seconded by Mr. Castrejon, that the minutes be approved and filed. The motion carried.

COA REPORT

20-0853 July 2020 Historic Certificate of Appropriateness Report

There were no questions on the COA report.

20-0854 August 2020 Historic Certificate of Appropriateness Report

There were no questions on the COA report.

20-0855 September 2020 Historic Certificate of Appropriateness Report There were no questions on the COA report.

20-0856 October 2020 Historic Certificate of Appropriateness Report There were no questions on the COA report.

20-0857 November 2020 Historic Certificate of Appropriateness Report There were no questions on the COA report.

PUBLIC COMMENT

None.

AGENDA

20-0844 Certificate of Appropriateness to install solar panels on the south facing roof being visible from the street at 181 S. Lincoln Avenue (Ildefonso

Corral - 20-0844 / AU27/1-20.213-COA/HP- JM - Ward 2)

Mrs. Morgan said so this is a Certificate of Appropriateness for solar panels on the south facing roofline. This property is zoned R-3. It is in the Near Eastside Historic District. The house is a contributing resource that was built circa 1914 in the

Craftsman style. In general, the applicant is proposing solar panels on the south facing roofline located near the middle of the roofline set behind the chimney and they will be flush mounted and will be gray to match the roof. As a front-gabled house, both the roof slopes are visible from the street and, therefore, staff cannot approve it.

The Preservation Commission did recently approve some additional clarifications to help guide you in variations from the existing guidelines, and that was to allow them where they are minimally visible from the public right-of-way. While they are not proposing ones right at the front edge of the house, they are set back slightly, that part of the roofline does appear to be visible from the street. Not visible from the sidewalk, but when you get out into the street the roofline does seem to be pretty visible. I’ll do a screen share to show. So here is where they are proposing. As you can see, it is set behind the chimney.

Mrs. Del Debbio said I thought there was a tile roof on this house. Apparently not.

Chairman Miller said it looked like older asphalt shingles. I was a little bit surprised that they were looking to put solar panels on top of it.

Mrs. Morgan said here is from the sidewalk, and as you can see, due to the height and significance of the pitch, you can hardly see it. Then when you back out from the street it is pretty visible, that portion of the roofline, or at least that was staff’s opinion.

The applicant is appealing on the grounds that it would take away from the homeowner’s right to have clean energy, the roof is not street-facing, and it will not take away from the aesthetics of the property because the panels would match the color of the roof. Are there any questions for staff or any discussion?

Mr. Walker said is there a portion of the roof that is decently hidden that would be large enough to have any panels, even an insignificant amount?

Mr. Munoz said the only thing would be on the porch in the back, but I don’t think it is big enough.

Mr. Walker said wasn’t that the problem we had on the other one was that if you could only fit 2 to 4 panels or something it is basically pointless?

Mr. Munoz said yes. It would probably be only like 10% or less.

Mr. Hoffman said and the porch roof would be shadowed for the first half of the day. I do see that this is their only feasible area.

Mrs. Foster said it is pretty visible from all sides.

Chairman Miller said I’ve walked by. Like from the sidewalk on the same side of the street, I don’t think it would be that noticeable, but then walking on the other side of the street from the sidewalk you can see every single inch of this roof. For a comparison, I went to look at a house on Clark Street where we approved an installation earlier and I don’t think you really notice driving down the street or from the sidewalk on the same side. You have a steeper angle. You can kind of tell, but you have to look closely to see it. Then when you are on the other side of the street, you can look across and you can see the installation on one side if you look up there.

Just for comparison. When driving by the house in my car, I don’t think I really noticed. But this one Jill, you were saying you think that driving by you would actually see these?

Mrs. Morgan said yes. I stood in the street. The picture I took was standing in the street.

Chairman Miller said okay, you were in the street when you took it. Please be careful when you are doing that. I don’t want to be accused of telling Jill to go play in the street.

Mr. Hoffman said and the distinction of the one on Clark is they were set, the houses are a little closer together, and the panels were set far back.

Chairman Miller said they are. That’s a longer house.

Mr. Hoffman said this one has the jerk and head roof, which cuts off some of the available space in the back.

Chairman Miller said this is kind of a tough one. If it was only that view just from the sidewalk standing close to the house where the house to the south of it is actually quite close and you have the steep angle to look up, I might be inclined to just let them do it. But I think every other angle it is more visible.

Mr. Munoz said if you walk on the sidewalk past the house, you aren’t going to be able to see it.

Mr. Hoffman said I’m comparing this with the pictures I took of the house on Clark. I think the one on Clark has a shallower roof and that’s also why (inaudible) is because the roof is shallower. This one is steeper, so it is more of the projected surface that you see.

Chairman Miller said I think you are right. That is a good distinction. This is a steeper look. I noticed on foot from across the street standing on the sidewalk, I thought I could see every inch of the roof, like every panel, you’d see every piece of conduit.

The only thing I don’t really like on the Clark Street installation is they have this shiny aluminum conduit running all over the roof. They could have used something with a duller color. They didn’t do that real well. There is some shiny aluminum conduit, even on like the electrical box that’s toward the front of the house so there is conduit running up to the front.

Mr. Hoffman said they took the short and easy route to get there.

Mr. Signorelli said well I would have to go with staff’s recommendation. I would recommend denial.

Chairman Miller said Al recommends denial. Does anyone else have a strong opinion on this one?

Mr. Walker said I agree with Al. I don’t think there is going to be a way because even if we try to math out something to squeeze one in or so that would be meeting the guideline it’s not going to matter because it won’t be enough and as we talked to the people in the past, like garages or something like that isn’t really like an alternative.

There isn’t really anything else we can do.

Chairman Miller said does anyone want to make a motion on this one? It sounds like a motion to deny.

Mrs. Del Debbio said I’ll go ahead and do it. I agree. I think that the pitch of the roof and the proximity to the house next door and the view from the street and the fact that that roof just doesn’t have an option for them. There really isn’t another place, so I would have to deny it. As much as I would love to see someone get some solar panels, it is just not going to work.

MOTION OF DENIAL WAS MADE BY: Jen Del Debbio

MOTION SECONDED BY: Mike Walker

AYES: Justyn Arnold, Fernando Castrejon, Jen Del Debbio, Amber Foster, Seth Hoffman, Dan Miller, Simon Munoz, Al Signorelli, Mike Walker

NAYS: None

A motion was made by Mrs. Del Debbio, seconded by Mr. Walker, that this agenda item be denied. The motion carried.

20-0840 Certificate of Appropriateness for aluminum soffits and fascia on a home clad in vinyl siding at 224 Blackhawk Street (Shawn Bolger- 20-0840 - AU21/2-20.215-COA/HP - JM - Ward 6)

Mrs. Morgan said let me bring up a picture real quick. As Dan mentioned, this is at 224 Blackhawk Street and is in the Tanner Historic District. The building is currently used as a 4 unit apartment building. It was built circa 1890’s and according to Sanborn maps, the building was originally built as a store and originally had kind of that kind of long footprint that you see now. Some of our surveys had noted that those were additions, but it does appear that they, or at least early on, if not original, at least early on to the building. The small addition where the door is appears to date to about the 1950’s to 1970’s from what staff could find. The door lasted until the 1970’s when it was converted to residential. A 1977 photo shows the asphalt siding on the second story and at that point it had 2 over 2 wood windows. It looks like it had that wood fascia that you see today. Let me see if I can quickly pull up those photos. You can see here the house as it appeared in 1997 and the below one as it appeared in 1977.

So that vinyl siding does date to at least 1997. Let me bring up a picture of what it looks like today. Here is the wood soffits and fascia. As I mentioned, the Design Guidelines specifically state that soffits and fascia if deteriorated beyond repair they shall be replaced with boards that match the original. Specifically, they would have to repair the soffits and fascia to meet the guidelines, so that is why they are coming before the Commission. The applicant appeals on the grounds that the contractor stated the wood was too deteriorated to try to piece together for repair, that putting aluminum will not hurt the historical integrity of the building and that animals getting

into the attic is a health hazard. That was one of their biggest concerns was the animals getting into the attic. Staff did inspect the wood and felt that there was enough deterioration or missing wood that replacing the soffit and fascia with new wood is what staff would have permitted. The soffits and fascia would have to kind of try to match the molding of the current wood. Are there any questions for staff before I turn it over to the Petitioner?

Mr. Hoffman said is this associated with roofing primarily?

Mrs. Morgan said yes.

Chairman Miller said thank you for putting that together Jill. I don’t think I have any questions for you. Does anyone else?

I’m Shawn Bolger. My home address is 2727 S. Justin Road, McHenry, Illinois. The reason I had asked to have the hearing this evening was to address the issue of the tenants have been complaining about the animals. There are multiple squirrels and racoons or whatever. I’ve had trappers out there twice this year already. The neighbor next door, I believe, does a lot of feeding of the wildlife, so there is quite lot of animals that seem to visit over there and at this point they are super destructive and they get into the attic and then cause a lot of damage and have animal waste up there and it is just a big mess. All my neighbors around me also have aluminum soffits and fascia. I understand the idea of historic preservation, but what is being preserved is not like, to me, I have a historic building up in Elgin and I get it. It looks historic. This one, I don’t want to say that it doesn’t have any historic value, and I understand it was a store at one time, but I think the safety and health of the tenants is paramount. Everyone around me has already put up these aluminum fascia and soffits I’m sure to keep the animals out because there are so many of them. I removed all the trees around the property, but I think they are coming in off of the telephone wire. The wood is old, it is very hard to maintain. It is not a very attractive look. I think it will generally look so much nicer for the neighborhood to have them uniform and neat and secure. That’s my only point.

Chairman Miller said I think that’s what I was going to ask first. Have you removed any landscaping?

Ms. Bolger said yes, we have. We went through and pulled out everything that was close. There was a tree that came down this spring because the animals seem to be getting in that way. They are very cleaver.

Chairman Miller said I agree with you there. I can tell you I live around the other side of this block and I’ve had some problems with animals at times too. As far as maintaining the wooden soffits, it is no different than really anyone else in the district would do. I’ve had to replace some of mine as well due to some deterioration. I also had a neighbor that was feeding racoons. I wish that she would not have done that. I would say that.

Ms. Bolger and racoons have the strength to pull things off. I had trappers for racoons also and it is fairly dangerous.

Chairman Miller said I’ve been able to keep mine out by replacing the wood and keeping everything up to date. You can’t let anything get deteriorated.

Ms. Bolger said especially when it is a principal residence. I get that. Right now we are in the pandemic. The tenants are a pain. I have a roof that has to be replaced. I need to do this. I’m having to go into savings. It is such a challenge and I feel that if I have to go the expense of fixing this, I want it fixed right. The continual maintenance thing isn’t really feasible. Literally it was twice already this year that I paid hundreds of dollars to have trappers go in and repair the damage. It is not insignificant. I don’t need to belabor the point. That’s my point.

Chairman Miller said I understand that. We can all understand your situation. With the guidelines we have, just maintaining the soffits isn’t anything different than any other homeowner is asked to do in the district. As far as your neighbors, I would imagine that the aluminum that was on in the 90’s was probably grandfathered in, as is your vinyl siding.

Ms. Bolger said I guess that was the other point. When I bought it, it was clad in vinyl

or aluminum or whatever the siding is. To me, it would be more important to focus on making the neighborhood as nice as possible.

Mrs. Del Debbio said well I thought of things that I could do in a temporary situation. I own an old house with a very steep roof and my God, they have chewed holes the size of grapefruits up in the soffits. My husband works out of town. It is very difficult to get him (inaudible). It is challenging. I know that we have some metal, it is kind of like a sifter for gravel, and we thought about just temporarily kind of placing that behind the boards while we are cutting the wood to put up there. I don’t know if that is a temporary situation you could do. I don’t know how the Preservation Commission would feel about that. It isn’t permanent, but it would at least stop the critters from nesting all winter in there while you get somebody to mill the woodwork. I don’t know how you feel about that.

Mr. Hoffman said there’s some, what look like temporary patches, on there now.

Where the animals are getting through is where the wood is rotted. A well maintained wood soffit will last decades and decades. The aluminum is not any more resistant to animals.

Mrs. Del Debbio said no. They will peel that back. You’re right.

Mr. Hoffman said the profile looks like a traditional bed molding profile. It is not something that Home Depot stocks, but it is not obscure. It is a pretty typical exterior trim profile.

Mr. Signorelli said I was questioning the amount of damage. From what I can see, certainly from the front façade, it doesn’t look like there is any damage. On the one side elevation, there is obvious damage.

Mrs. Del Debbio said is there an estimate on the extensiveness of the damage?

Ms. Bolger said he gave me a proposal for roof and the soffit. It is not inexpensive. I know that. I think on the roof and soffit it was $15,000 or $16,000, something like that.

Mr. Hoffman said and that was for covering the soffit with aluminum?

Ms. Bolger said it was everything. It was a package. I have to do the gutters then too.

The difficulty too is that the rotted portion you can’t secure anything to it so it needs to be replaced.

Mr. Hoffman said regardless of whether that’s going to be wrapped or repaired, there is going to be quite a bit of wood replacement. The difference is if they are wrapping it they will just put up some crude blocking to attach the aluminum wrap to it rather than matching the profile on the existing.

Ms. Bolger said I don’t think I’m going to be able to. To do what you are talking about, we were trying to get a permit and it was denied. I’m kind of tapped out. He was saying how expensive it is to start patching and matching and he’s not going to be able to do it. So I don’t know that I can get it done, so I’d probably just leave it the way it is.

Mr. Hoffman said how many quotes have you gotten for the work?

Ms. Bolger said I’ve gotten 2 quotes. I signed a contract with this guy. I’ve put down my deposit with the understanding the roof has to be done.

Mr. Hoffman said not all of the regular commodity asphalt roofers have experience or know exterior mill work. That may be one of the struggles that he is having. He is just not familiar with it.

Chairman Miller said that could be. You need to have like an actual carpenter look at it.

Ms. Bolger said that sounds inexpensive. At this point, I guess I’ll just go with just the roof then.

Chairman Miller said you’ll need to do something with the soffits at some point due to the reasons you listed. As I say, I’ve had carpentry done on homes that I own in the district and haven’t found it that inaccessible. This looks like some basic carpentry work that needs done. Nothing different than what other homeowners would do. When I had trouble with animals myself, as Seth Hoffman mentioned, it was related to some wood that had deteriorated where they felt free to dig through, which they did. It is an unpleasant situation, so I can feel for you there to have the animals come in. Does anyone have any other questions for the Petitioner here?

Mr. Munoz said did he have any contractor to repair the holes to do carpentry work?

Ms. Bolger said no. I had the quotes for replacing the, again, everyone around me has aluminum fascia and soffits so it didn’t really seem like this was going to be an issue and so I had gotten a couple of quotes on the roof and went with this guy. I made my deposit and that’s kind of where I am at this point.

Chairman Miller said it does take a little extra effort on these older homes in the historic districts to make sure you get the right people that can do the work. I’m sure the roof, this contractor can probably do the roof and that’s up to you. If they are not comfortable with carpentry, then they may not be able to handle these soffits for you.

Ms. Morgan said I can provide some names of carpenters who have gotten permits the past few years. Maybe they can come out and just take a look at the soffits and fascia just themselves and have the roofer you are contracted with just do the roof and gutters.

Ms. Bolger said okay. Again, I don’t know cost-wise what that’s going to look like. So are you saying no?

Mrs. Morgan said we haven’t voted.

Chairman Miller said we haven’t voted on it. Should we have a vote on the Petition?

Mrs. Morgan said are there any other, in case the Commission does just say no, is there any temporary solutions for the winter that anyone can think of to at least keep things out for the winter? At this point, it is getting cold weather-wise to do a lot of wood carpentry work.

Mr. Signorelli said other than Jen’s suggestion, which could be a temporary fix, I don’t know. We had squirrels coming through the louvers in the attic fan that we have, so I put pierced metal screening over that opening so that we could still turn on the fan, but the squirrels couldn’t get through and they have never gotten through again. So there might be some kind of temporary fix that could be done on the inside, at least in the interim.

Chairman Miller said that’s a good idea.

Mr. Hoffman said if there are rotted openings in the soffit, I would suggest temporary covers with plywood and dimensional lumber screwed over it. It will be easier to remove when you do the roof and permanent soffit in the spring.

Ms. Bolger said I’m going to do the roof now. I can’t wait until the spring to do the roof.

I’m getting water. I’ve got to get that done.

Mr. Hoffman said does your contract with him also include repairing rotted sheathing and other damage that he uncovers?

Ms. Bolger said yes. He’s gone up in the attic and includes, like I said, I’m not looking at the quote. You may even have it from the permit application. I’m not sure.

Mr. Hoffman said is there plywood or OSB backing on there or does he have to put down new decking?

Ms. Bolger said I’m sorry, what is that?

Mr. Hoffman said is he putting down new sheathing or decking or is that already…

Ms. Bolger said some, only where it is damaged.

Mr. Signorelli said okay, I think I have the total amount here as $13,908.14.

Mrs. Moran said yes, and it does look like it includes installing new 1 by 6 and 1 by 8 lumbers in areas where the wood is rotted. Extending the beams too to strengthen fascia boards.

Mr. Signorelli said I’m not sure what that means. It sounds like, what other work would be needed if he’s agreed to already do that?

Chairman Miller said that doesn’t say replacing like moldings or anything like that. Any other discussion on this?

Mr. Signorelli said there is only one more point I’d like to clear up. I know very often it can be confusing, but a homeowner looks at other properties all around them with things that have been done and in this case the homeowner was talking about soffits and fascia done already in aluminum wrap, but you have to understand that we have no control over the work that was done before an area was designated, so most likely that kind of work was done over the years before the area was designed as a historic district, so the Commission would have no control over that work. We just have control over it now because of the district designation, just to clear that up. I know that can be confusing.

Chairman Miller said this district didn’t come into play until like the late 1990’s, so your vinyl siding is grandfathered in.

Mr. Hoffman said I’m going to offer one other alternative that I believe, I’m reading the guidelines, and it is mentioned elsewhere, we have approved composite materials that match the shape (inaudible) of the wood. For the actual soffit surface, it could be cement fiber and then for the profiles, those generally aren’t available in cement fiber, but they are often available in cellular PVC, Azek is one brand, and then once it is installed, it can be painted just like wood, it looks just like wood, but it is more rot resistant and holds the paint better.

Ms. Bolger said is it comparable cost-wise? I can ask them to look into it.

Mr. Hoffman said it varies, depending on what type of wood you are looking at. It can be comparable. Again, really is a little bit more expensive. I think they often offer 25 to 30 years on the finish. A quality painted wood soffit should be 10 to 15 years without any big care maintenance if it is done properly. Poorly prepared it might only last 2 or 3 years.

Ms. Bolger said okay, I’ll ask them to check.

Mr. Hoffman said but that is the kind of thing that just your average asphalt roofer may not have experience in.

Chairman Miller said I’m sure they might not. I would like to move the meeting along.

Does the Petitioner wish to withdraw the petition or do you want us to vote on it?

Ms. Bolger said you might as well. Is there any harm in voting on it?

Chairman Miller said we can go ahead. It says the Petitioner asks to wrap soffits and fascia with aluminum on the vinyl sided property at 224 Blackhawk Street.

Mrs. Morgan said is there a motion to approve or deny?

Chairman Miller said is the motion to approve or deny the petition?

MOTION OF DENIAL WAS MADE BY: Jen Del Debbio

MOTION SECONDED BY: Al Signorelli

AYES: Justyn Arnold, Fernando Castrejon, Jen Del Debbio, Amber Foster, Seth Hoffman, Dan Miller, Simon Munoz, Al Signorelli, Mike Walker

NAYS: None

A motion was made by Mrs. Del Debbio, seconded by Mr. Signorelli, that this agenda item be denied. The motion carried.

20-0842 Certificate of Appropriateness to allow a time frame to cure the existing  violation for inappropriate windows and door at 451 N. View Street (Victor Ramos - 20-0842 - AU21/2-20.214-COA/HP - JM - Ward 6)

Mrs. Morgan said let me bring a picture up of the home. I will introduce the project, give a little background and then I will ask for questions of staff and then I will turn it over to the Petitioner to answer any questions or add any additional information. As noted, the owner is requesting an extended timeframe to correct the violation of vinyl windows and a steel door with appropriate windows and doors and the allowance for only a portion of the windows to be replaced at 451 N. View Street. Here is a picture of the current house with the violation. The property is zoned R-3. It is within the Tanner Historic District. It is noted as a contributing resource. The home was built in circa 1907 in the late Queen Anne style. The 2000 survey of the building noted 1 over 1 double hung windows and a window with leaded glass along the top where now is the large picture window. It was a large picture window with the leaded glass along the top.

So the violation for the new windows came in last month and the applicant is asking for some leniency. I’ll just bring up some old photos from about 2012 and 2019 showing mostly the 1 over 1 double hung windows and the leaded glass window. Just in the past, as a reminder, the Commission has approved Marvin Wood Ultimate double hung windows in previous cases similar to this with a frame and sash combination of 3 inches. To note, we particularly note that special attention should be placed on finding new windows inset with a small frame since we are already going to be reducing the opening since you are adding a frame withing the existing frame. For the leaded glass window, staff would suggest maybe trying to find a salvage window. I also thought maybe the Commission members might have some ideas about that as well. Staff’s suggestion is allowing a 3 year timeframe starting with the 2 sash windows and door in the front façade this year, the north elevation being the one that faces the street and the leaded glass window in 2022 and then the south elevation being the interior lot in 2023. Are there any questions for staff before I ask the Petitioner if he wants to add anything? Victor, thank you for joining us. Is there anything you would like to add to the violation or the Petition? Are there any questions for the Petitioner?

Mr. Ramos said I would like to (inaudible).

Chairman Miller said I don’t think I can here you Victor. Can anyone else hear?

Mr. Signorelli said no.

Mrs. Del Debbio said not at all.

Mr. Ramos said I was saying I guess I want to see if you can reconsider. In talking to Jill, I understand the violation was a mistake between myself and the company I hired to do the windows. I mentioned to Jill I would like you to reconsider this. I would like make a petition to you. I would like to bring back to the house the three additions you request from me and just leave the size on the back of the house. I can remove all the aluminum, like the casings of the windows and the frames. I know the house is within the historic district, but that house really doesn’t have anything old besides the age. Again, like I said, I actually asked them if they were going to go to the city and ask if I had to ask for a permit to change the windows. The company tells me they did the same thing and I didn’t have to ask for a permit. I made the mistake not to consider your permission. Like I said, is it possible that any work (inaudible).

Chairman Miller said I’m sorry that’s happened to you Victor. I’m not quite sure I understand what you are asking.

Mr. Ramos said I’m asking to redo again the front of the house and comply with the request that you guys asked me to do and try to consider the sides of the house. I can remove the aluminum. I can do the (inaudible) on the windows with some either framing or something and paint it. I’m just trying to make better the (inaudible). I’ll try to do the whole (inaudible) next year to the house. It is something that I want to bring up to you guys now.

Mrs. Morgan said so I think Victor, if I remember what we discussed on-site, is you were thinking about doing the front, changing the front, and then taking off the aluminum wrapping of the window frames and restoring wood, but you are not wanting to change out the windows on the elevations. Is that correct?

Mr. Ramos said yes, that’s correct. That’s what I’ll try to do.

Mr. Signorelli said so that would not include the large front window? That wouldn’t include putting back some sort of leaded glass or stained glass treatment above the window below as original, right? I think that that would be really an important element to put back if the window was going to have to be changed.

Mrs. Morgan said so Al is saying that he thinks that big large picture window, it would be very important to change that out. It would be one of your top priorities.

Mr. Ramos said that’s the first thing that I would try to change at the end of spring or the beginning of summer.

Mrs. Morgan said what do the Commission members think about limiting it to just the front, including the picture window?

Chairman Miller said the front would be my priority. What is everyone else thinking?

Mr. Signorelli said well the front would be my priority as well. If the windows on the other elevations, if the wood was brought back, I would not have such a problem. I have a question. If I’m correct, originally the windows were all one over one, right?

Mrs. Morgan said correct.

Mr. Signorelli said are the muttons that are in the windows now, are those removable?

Mr. Hoffman said they are all in the front.

Mr. Signorelli said they are only in the front. I see that now. The others don’t have that. That picture window on the front façade is such an important feature with a little leaded or stained glass feature and if that was returned I think that would be really charming and really period appropriate obviously.

Mr. Hoffman said they sometimes call it an Oriole window where you have the narrow sash, a short sash over that larger sash and that diamond pattern was a very customary style around this period, actually pretty much the pattern from the Victorian into even the very Four Square style. Even the very Four Square style has that exact same window.

Mr. Signorelli said also the front door would be replaced also, correct?

Mr. Ramos said yes.

Mr. Signorelli said what kind of door would it be replaced with?

Mr. Ramos said well Jill recommended going back to a wood door.

Mr. Signorelli said right. Would it have glass in it or would it be solid wood?

Mr. Ramos said I would probably look for something that has some glass design on it.

I will show it to you guys or see if you want something else. The installer did those windows. I’ve got a good chance to bring it back though.

Chairman Miller said does anyone recall the home on, I think it was Oak, where a homeowner had put in all vinyl windows and he was trying to sell and he got the violation?

Mrs. Morgan said yes.

Chairman Miller said did we ever come up with something where we allowed him to keep a few of them and try to paint them or something?

Mrs. Morgan said we did. It ended up he had to replace about 9 windows. I think he had a violation of like 13. He had to replace the entire front and then the sides, like the first bay on the sides, and he had a 3 bay window, so he had to do the 3 bay window, the windows in front of it and then windows on the other side that’s closest to the front façade. The ones toward the back we let him paint. Actually I don’t think he did aluminum over the frames. I think his was just the replacement windows.

Chairman Miller said I have not gotten back to see what the vinyl windows looked like painted.

Mrs. Morgan said they have not been painted yet.

Chairman Miller said they have not been, okay. I’m not real familiar with painting vinyl windows. In some ways, the dimensions are still off. They are not really what we want, but I guess you could get rid of some of the shininess of them.

Mrs. Morgan said I think that was the thought of the Commission so that they would match the rest of the trim because their trim was green.

Mr. Hoffman said the original sashes on this, and it probably appears they’ve been painted over white more recently, well perhaps maybe toward the fall, but the in front you can see that they are black. Pretty much all window sashes during this time were painted black. It kind of gives them more depth. I have done that. I built a garage and used vinyl windows and I painted it pretty successful.

Chairman Miller said you say you painted the vinyl windows?

Mr. Hoffman said yes to match the appearance of the black wood sash.

Mr. Signorelli said in a lot of cases, people are against doing that, but as long as you use the proper paint and prepare the surface properly, you can paint just about anything.

Mr. Hoffman said I agree on the sides. I think it is the aluminum wrap that is the most visible because it obscures the drip edge on the top and just kind of throws the Chairman Miller said it does.

Mr. Signorelli said I agree. I would say, again, that if the picture window was replaced and the front door was replaced and the wrapping around the other windows was removed and repaired and painted that I could go along with it.

Mrs. Morgan said you would be willing, Al, to do the front façade windows, including the large picture window, and then removing the wrap to the elevations?

Mr. Signorelli said yes.

Mrs. Morgan said does anyone else have thoughts about the elevations? I would note that this is basically a corner lot because the lot to the left is an empty lot, so you can see the side from the street.

Mr. Hoffman said is that a city owned open space or is it a privately owned undeveloped lot?

Mrs. Morgan said it is part of the other property. It is part of the yard of the house that would be like to the left.

Mr. Hoffman said the apartment building, the apartment there on Plum?

Mrs. Morgan said yes, I believe. I will double check that, but I believe it is. I don’t think it is a buildable lot that could be with the building.

Chairman Miller said I think there is a door also on the north elevation, maybe that’s obscured by a wall there. Was that also replaced at this time or was that door already there?

Mrs. Del Debbio said it looks new.

Mrs. Morgan said I couldn’t quite tell based on the photos what was there.

Mr. Hoffman said I see fresh wood around it like it was recent. I think that’s less visible. It is close to the property line. If it is a storage utility door, it is not really visible or intended to be part of the façade.

Chairman Miller said it sounds like what we are discussing is perhaps is asking Mr. Ramos to restore the front elevation facing View Street. I think that includes all 3 of the windows. At least, that’s what I’m thinking. To restore all 3 of the windows facing the street and the front door.

Mrs. Morgan said yes, that was my understanding.

Chairman Miller said the 2 sash windows and that front window should need to look, I agree, he would probably need to look for a salvage. Often people with door violations are doing their doors with salvage, so this could be a salvage item as well. Keep in mind, restoring the front door doesn’t mean going back to the door that was there before with the 3 windows. That’s kind of a 1960’s style I think. So replacing the door, we go to something more appropriate to a late Victorian house. It would be a wooden door as Jill said. As far as the north and south elevations, I think Mr. Ramos has asked if he can remove the aluminum cladding, which I think is important. I believe he would like to leave he vinyl windows in place. So we need to decide if we can allow that or if it can maybe be painted along with wood that would be uncovered when he removed the aluminum cladding. Those windows could be painted to look, they’re not really going to be the right windows, but will they be, for this particular property on the side elevations, would they be close enough? Original windows were one over ones, which makes the visual difference less than it could be than if he had removed divided lights and put in one over one windows. Does anyone have any thoughts on that on allowing the vinyl to stay or some conditions?

Mrs. Morgan said I did confirm Dan, that that lot is part of…

Mrs. Del Debbio said do we need to address the, or did I miss the discussion about the siding in relationship to the windows? I don’t understand what the future looks like of the house. What’s going to happen in the future of it?

Chairman Miller said I believe that siding is grandfathered in. Obviously, it is not the correct siding.

Mrs. Del Debbio said right. It is probably asbestos siding, isn’t it? I don’t know.

Mr. Hoffman said it is a cement fiber. I would say innocent until proven guilty. It is probably on top of the original clapboards. Maybe there is (inaudible) up in the gable.

There probably is a double curved full inset window. I think restoring the wood piece would help there. The one thing about these cement fiber or asbestos shingle siding is they usually didn’t mess with the window trim too much so if someone in the future were to remove that, they should be able to restore the original and if the window work is done now with the wood window piecings, that should leave that option open.

Mrs. Del Debbio said that’s what I was hoping, for some type of future option with the house because it does look like it could be really worked in the future. I wouldn’t want it to be worked in the negative way.

Mr. Hoffman said it has a lot of potential.

Mrs. Del Debbio said it does has a lot of potential.

Chairman Miller said I agree it does. I like it.

Mrs. Del Debbio said it does have a lot of potential. It is very nice. I’m all for the façade. Definitely start with that and do what we can with the front facing windows.

Mr. Signorelli said I would like to suggest too to Mr. Ramos that he might contact John Wardell Clark and maybe John can get him a salvaged window for the upper part of that picture window and/or maybe he could do the work for the whole thing. I don’t know, but maybe he could talk to him. He is a stained glass super expert, or glass expert I should say.

Mr. Hoffman said since this is a very common style for the era, it’s shouldn’t be too difficult to find salvage doors. It is just finding one with the right fit. Usually the height didn’t vary as much, so finding one with the right width should be easier.

Mrs. Morgan said I have a couple of salvage places, but if anyone else has some salvage places they know of, if you could forward me that information, I could forward it along to the Petitioner.

Mr. Castrejon said so I have a couple of questions. One, did Victor agree to this 3 year timeline that you proposed and two, based on the recommendations now of the front door and so on, are we voting on this particular petition or are we adding and postponing until the next meeting?

Mrs. Morgan said when we go to vote, it is voting on, if the Commission agrees, really it is the front and what timeframe you would suggest. Would you still want a 3 year timeframe or would you want to make that less if you are being more lenient on the requirements?

Mr. Castrejon said I don’t know if Victor is still with us, but is he on board with this 3 year timeline?

Mr. Ramos said yes, actually I’m fine with that. Actually, I will try to accomplish most of that next summer.

Chairman Miller said it sounded to me like I was hearing the Commission really wants, on the recommendations prepared by staff, thank you Jill, we are pretty solid on #1 that the 2 sash windows and door on the front façade be replaced in 2021.

Mrs. Morgan said put the leaded glass window in the next year with the side elevations.

Chairman Miller said okay, so we are wanting #1 really and also the leaded glass window on the front. That work needs to be done. What I wanted to hear from everyone is are we comfortable with allowing any vinyl windows on the side elevations to stay, while at the same time removing the aluminum cladding? On this particular property, personally, I might be inclined to let these slide. That could be wrong on my part, so I want to hear what everyone else is thinking.

Mr. Signorelli said I agree with that Dan.

Chairman Miller said what is everyone else thinking?

Mr. Castrejon said I’m okay with that. We did it before with the previous house.

Chairman Miller said the previous one we did have him replace quite a few, but we did allow him to leave a few of the vinyl in and try painting them.

Mr. Hoffman said I’m comfortable with it given the vinyl replacements on the side are one over one and aren’t a drastic change from their original appearance when the aluminum is removed. I’m okay with leaving those on the side.

Chairman Miller said I agree with that and for the reasons that Seth stated.

Mrs. Del Debbio said me too. I agree with that too. I think that’s a forward step to take.

Chairman Miller said so it sounds like we are okay with leaving the vinyl windows on the side elevations while removing the aluminum wrapping on the frames. Are we asking then that the windows and the window frames all be painted? Do we think that that would be the best avenue?

Mr. Signorelli said doesn’t it kind of depend on the way the overall paint scheme of the house is?

Chairman Miller said that’s a good point.

Mr. Signorelli said maybe they wouldn’t necessarily have to be if it was a certain color scheme maybe.

Mr. Hoffman said and depending what the sash color of the new windows on the front will be. They should match that. Like I said, black or very dark green was the traditional match color. Many of those have been painted white. Our guidelines don’t dictate paint color, so I think that’s the preference of the homeowner.

Mr. Signorelli said Amber and Justyn, how do you feel about this?

Mr. Arnold said that sounds fine.

Mrs. Foster said I agree.

Mr. Signorelli said I think it is a fair compromise.

Chairman Miller said then we are requiring basically the complete restoration of the front façade, while on the sides we are only asking to remove the aluminum cladding.

What timeframe should recommend? Mr. Ramos suggested that he wants to get most of it done next year.

Mr. Ramos said I have the commitment to get it done next summer.

Chairman Miller said okay. Should we make a motion? How do we do this?

Mrs. Morgan said you would want to make a motion to approve the Certificate of Appropriateness with the condition that the 2 sash windows and door on the front façade and the leaded glass window on the front façade be replaced in 2021 and that the aluminum wrapping around the front elevation and the side elevations be removed and restored and painted.

Mrs. Del Debbio said it sounds great.

Mr. Signorelli said do we want to give a two year timeframe just to give the homeowner a buffer, saying that by spring, for example, the front façade could be done and then give him another possible year, he may not need it, for the rest of the work? Would that be acceptable? A 2 year instead of a 3 year?

Chairman Miller said I would be okay with 2 years.

Mr. Castrejon said I agree.

Mrs. Del Debbio said so do I.

Chairman Miller said sometimes when you are hunting salvage items, you don’t exactly know what your timeframe might be. So I think we would like to approve, as Jill said, the Certificate of Appropriateness to restore the front façade, the 2 sash windows, the large picture window with leaded glass and the front door and also remove the aluminum cladding over the window frames on the side elevations all be 2022.

MOTION OF APPROVAL WAS MADE BY: Al Signorelli

MOTION SECONDED BY: Fernando Castrejon

AYES: Justyn Arnold, Fernando Castrejon, Jen Del Debbio, Amber Foster, Seth Hoffman, Dan Miller, Simon Munoz, Al Signorelli, Mike Walker

NAYS: None

A motion was made by Mr. Signorelli, seconded by Mr. Castrejon, that this agenda item be approved. The motion carried.

PENDING

COMMITTEE REPORTS

A) Grants - Dan Miller, Chariman

No Report.

B) Near Eastside Historic District - Jennifer Baird-del Debbio, Chairperson No Report.

C) Riddle Highlands Historic District - Fernando Castrejon, Chairperson No Report.

D) Public Awareness - Mike Walker, Chariman

No Report.

E) Landmarks - Al Signorelli, Chariman

No Report.

F) FoxWalk Design Review - Fernando Castrejon, Chairperson

No Report.

G) Tanner/Palace Historic District Committee - Justyn Arnold, Chairperson No Report.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

Chairman Miller said I think on the committees, the last time we talked I threw out some ideas about trying to reform them, I think, into one that would maybe not be a committee but would be people to assist Jill on reviewing some things that come in kind of in lieu of the neighborhood committees. The other 1 or 2 would be to review past violations and in some cases we’ve given people long timeframes. I don’t think Historic Preservation Commission Meeting Minutes December 17, 2020 that they are meeting them and also public awareness.

Mr. Signorelli said we also talked about the possibility of sending out the information or the reminders to people instead of twice a year, four times a year and one of the thoughts that I had was that one of those times, or maybe each of those times, exactly spelling out what kind of work that you would need a COA for. That’s just something that maybe we can talk about and think about and we talked about talking about that as soon as sometime in January. I guess we better talk about what we want and when that’s going to happen.

Chairman Miller said I think that would be good in providing Jill with some feedback.

With all this, I’m really trying to provide Jill some kind of support since she is really our only staff person and is part time in Preservation as I understand it. Jill raised issues with the ability of committees to meet. I might see if I can ask around about that. I think we have some work to do, both with the violations, which I’m not sure how to approach those, and I know people have been cited years ago for vinyl siding or windows and it’s been many years and they are still there. I want to be working on processes for that. I think public awareness would be important. People still seem to get confused, like Mr. Ramos that was in today. Across the street is a lamppost and the sign that says Tanner on it and I don’t know to what extent it is just contractors convincing people that it is not a problem and that could be part of it.

Mrs. Del Debbio said well I would think the primary problem, or not just present, even though the sign is there, you drive past it every day and you don’t even think about it. So maybe increasing the postcards, definitely stepping up these groups that we are all involved with, trying to get out and knock on doors, literally face to face contact. People don’t forget you when you actually stand at their door talking to them about their home. Maybe something like that.

Chairman Miller said so does that mean that you are volunteering to knock on doors Jennifer?

Mrs. Del Debbio said that’s right. That’s it. I volunteer. The postcards are probably the better bet.

Chairman Miller said hopefully we can make some progress on that. I’ll see if I can make any progress on getting us permission to meet. I think we have a lot to do and I hate to see anyone else putting in all vinyl windows and think that they are doing something good for their house. We’ve had a lot or real estate transactions, even this year there have been a lot or real estate move, so that means new people that maybe don’t know the drill yet. Does anyone else have feedback on the committees or stampeding to volunteer for one? I don’t hear anything. Are there any other announcements?

ADJOURNMENT

Chairman Miller said do we have a motion for adjournment?

MOTION TO ADJOURN WAS MADE BY: Al Signorelli

MOTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Munoz

AYES: Justyn Arnold, Fernando Castrejon, Jen Del Debbio, Amber Foster, Seth Hoffman, Dan Miller, Simon Munoz, Al Signorelli, Mike Walker

NAYS: None

A motion was made by Mr. Signorelli, seconded by Mr. Munoz, that the Historic Preservation Commission Meeting Minutes December 17, 2020 meeting be adjourned. The motion carried. Chairman Miller adjourned the meeting at 8:30 p.m.

https://www.aurora-il.org/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Minutes/_12172020-2480