The city of St. Charles Plan Commission met Oct. 4 to approve a subdivision plat application.
Here are the meeting's minutes, as provided by the commission:
MINUTES
CITY OF ST. CHARLES, IL
PLAN COMMISSION
TUESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2016
_________________________________________
Members Present: Vice Chairman Tim Kessler
Brian Doyle
Laura Macklin-Purdy
Tom Pretz
Michelle Spruth
Members Absent: Chairman Todd Wallace
Tom Schuetz
Dan Frio
James Holderfield
Also Present: Russell Colby, Planning Division Manager
Ellen Johnson, Planner
Chris Bong, Development Engineering Manager
Court Reporter
1. Call to order
Vice Chairman Kessler called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m.
2. Roll Call
Vice Chairman Kessler called the roll. A quorum was present.
3. Presentation of minutes of the September 12, 2016 joint meeting of the Plan
Commission and Planning & Development Committee.
Motion was made by Mr. Doyle, seconded by Ms. Macklin-Purdy, and unanimously passed by
voice vote to approve the minutes of the September 12, 2016 Plan Commission and Planning &
Development Committee meeting.
4. Presentation of minutes of the September 20, 2016 meeting of the Plan Commission.
Motion was made by Mr. Doyle, seconded by Ms. Macklin-Purdy, and unanimously passed by
voice vote to approve the minutes of the September 12, 2016 Plan Commission meeting. Mr.
Pretz abstained.
PUBLIC HEARING
5. Primrose School, Northwest Corner of Bricher Rd. and Blackberry Dr. (John
Finnemore & Shodeen Family Property Company LLC)
Minutes – St. Charles Plan Commission
Tuesday, October 4, 2016
Page 2
Application for Special Use to amend Ordinance 1982-Z-6 (St. Charles Commercial Center
PUD)
Application for PUD Preliminary Plan
Application for Final Plat of Subdivision
The attached transcript prepared by Planet Depos - Chicago Area Real Time Court Reporting is by
reference hereby made a part of these minutes.
Motion was made by Mr. Doyle and seconded by Mr. Pretz to close the public hearing.
Roll Call Vote:
Ayes: Spruth, Doyle, Pretz, Macklin-Purdy, Kessler
Nays: None
Absent: Wallace, Schuetz, Holderfield, Frio
Motion carried: 5-0
MEETING
6. Primrose School, Northwest Corner of Bricher Rd. and Blackberry Dr. (John
Finnemore & Shodeen Family Property Company LLC)
Application for Special Use to amend Ordinance 1982-Z-6 (St. Charles Commercial Center
PUD)
Application for PUD Preliminary Plan
Application for Final Plat of Subdivision
The attached transcript prepared by Planet Depos - Chicago Area Real Time Court Reporting is by
reference hereby made a part of these minutes.
7. Motion was made by Mr. Doyle and seconded by Mr. Pretz to recommend approval of
the Application for Special Use to amend Ordinance 1982-Z-6 (St. Charles Commercial
Center PUD), Application for PUD Preliminary Plan, and Application for Final Plat of
Subdivision for Primrose School, Northwest Corner of Bricher Rd. and Blackberry Dr.
(John Finnemore & Shodeen Family Property Company LLC) subject to resolution of
all staff comments.
Roll Call Vote:
Ayes: Spruth, Doyle, Pretz, Macklin-Purdy, Kessler
Nays: None
Absent: Wallace, Schuetz, Holderfield, Frio
Motion carried: 5-0
7. Additional Business from Plan Commission Members or Staff
8. Weekly Development Report
Minutes – St. Charles Plan Commission
Tuesday, October 4, 2016
Page 3
9. Meeting Announcements
a. Plan Commission
Tuesday, October 18, 2016 at 7:00pm Council Chambers
Tuesday, November 1, 2016 at 7:00pm Council Chambers
Tuesday, November 22, 2016 at 7:00pm Council Chambers
b. Planning & Development Committee
Monday, October 10, 2016 at 7:00pm Council Chambers
Monday, November 14, 2016 at 7:00pm Council Chambers
10. Public Comment
11. Adjournment at 7:44pm
1
1 BEFORE THE PLAN COMMISSION
2 OF THE CITY OF ST. CHARLES
3
4 --------------------------------x
5 In Re: :
6 Primrose School, Northwest Corner :
7 of Bricher Road and Blackberry :
8 Drive (John Finnemore & Shodeen :
9 Family Property Company, LLC) :
10 Application for Special Use to :
11 Amend Ordinance 1982-Z-6; :
12 Application for PUD Preliminary :
13 Plan; :
14 Application for Final Plat of :
15 Subdivision. :
16 --------------------------------x
17 REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS
18 St. Charles, Illinois 60174
19 Tuesday, October 4, 2016
20 7:04 p.m.
21
22 Job No.: 97800
23 Pages: 1 - 38
24 Reported by: Paula M. Quetsch, CSR, RPR
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1 Report of proceedings held at the location of:
2
3 ST. CHARLES CITY HALL
4 2 East Main Street
5 St. Charles, Illinois 60174
6 (630) 377-4400
7
8
9
10 Before Paula M. Quetsch, a Certified Shorthand
11 Reporter, Registered Professional Reporter, and a
12 Notary Public in and for the State of Illinois.
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
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1 PRESENT:
2 TIM KESSLER, Acting Chairman
3 BRIAN DOYLE, Member
4 LAURA MACKLIN-PURDY, Member
5 TOM PRETZ, Member
6 MICHELLE SPRUTH, Member
7
8 ALSO PRESENT:
9 RUSS COLBY, Planning Division Manager
10 ELLEN JOHNSON, Planner
11 CHRIS BONG, Development Engineering Manager
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
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24
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: This meeting of the
3 St. Charles Plan Commission will come order.
4 Doyle.
5 MEMBER DOYLE: Here.
6 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Pretz.
7 MEMBER PRETZ: Here.
8 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Purdy.
9 MEMBER MACKLIN-PURDY: Here.
10 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Spruth.
11 MEMBER SPRUTH: Here.
12 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Kessler, here.
13 Item No. 3 on the agenda, presentation of
14 the minutes of September 12th, 2016, joint meeting
15 of the Plan Commission and the Planning and
16 Development Committee.
17 Is there a motion to approve?
18 MEMBER DOYLE: So moved.
19 MEMBER MACKLIN-PURDY: Second.
20 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: All in favor.
21 (Ayes heard.)
22 MEMBER PRETZ: Abstain.
23 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: You were here.
24 MEMBER PRETZ: Aye.
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1 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Item 4 on the agenda is
2 presentation of the minutes of the September 20th,
3 2016, meeting of the Plan Commission. Is there a
4 motion?
5 MEMBER DOYLE: So moved.
6 MEMBER MACKLIN-PURDY: Second.
7 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: In favor.
8 (Ayes heard.)
9 MEMBER PRETZ: I'm going to abstain from
10 that one.
11 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Item 5 on the agenda is a
12 public hearing, Primrose School, Northwest Corner of
13 Bricher Road and Blackberry Drive (John Finnemore &
14 Shodeen Family Property Company, LLC) application
15 for Special Use to Amend Ordinance 1982-Z-6
16 (St. Charles Commercial Center PUD), Application for
17 PUD Preliminary Plan, and Application for Final Plat
18 of Subdivision.
19 Before we begin, just a couple -- we've all
20 been through a public hearing, and there's not a lot
21 of people here, but we'll just run through our
22 method quickly for you.
23 First, you can present your application.
24 Then we'll ask you questions and make comments
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1 regarding the presentation. Then if there was an
2 audience here we'd ask them to contribute, as well.
3 Then, if we've determined that we have
4 enough evidence to make a recommendation to the City
5 Council, we'll close the public hearing.
6 Any questions?
7 (No response.)
8 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Anyone wishing to offer
9 testimony, ask questions, I'd ask you to raise your
10 right hand and be sworn in.
11 (Witness sworn.)
12 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Okay. We'll go ahead if
13 the applicant would like to begin his presentation.
14 MR. FINNEMORE: Okay. Good evening. My
15 name is John Finnemore. I'm with Primrose Schools.
16 We're based in Acworth, Georgia. I actually work
17 out of my home in Madison, Wisconsin. So I came
18 running down here for the meeting. I lived down
19 here for many years and forgot how bad traffic can
20 be at 6:00 at night, but I'm glad I made it.
21 Primrose is not particularly well known in
22 the Chicagoland area. We have four operating
23 schools, just opened our fourth in Long Grove. We
24 have one in Naperville, South Elgin, and Algonquin.
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1 So we have this particular site under contract, and
2 we also have a location in Plainfield that we're
3 pursuing in entitlements.
4 We're basically a franchised childcare
5 company, education-based. We have a very
6 substantial education department that, in fact, is
7 going through a curriculum rewrite right now, and,
8 you know, we have about 330 schools across the
9 country. As I mentioned, we're franchised, so our
10 operators will be local residents; they'll be
11 members of your community operating the school.
12 You can see on the plan and probably in your
13 packets we're proposing a roughly 12,000-square-foot
14 building. At capacity DCFS will license it for about
15 184 children, which would equate to about 25 staff
16 members at that capacity, you know, at any one time.
17 The layout reflects 43 parking spots. I
18 believe your code requires 42, which is 3 1/2 stalls
19 per thousand square feet. So we're right on the
20 required number of parking spots. Primrose targets
21 about 42 to 46 stalls, so your code pretty much
22 nails childcare. We run into extremes on both ends
23 that will have one per classroom; others might have
24 upwards of 70 parking spots, but you're right on
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1 what we find works very well for us.
2 Basically, the remainder of the site after
3 the building and the parking lot will be a fairly
4 expansive playground area. You can see we divide it
5 up into four different age group playground settings
6 that are separately fenced and then have age
7 appropriate playground equipment within those
8 individual playgrounds.
9 We believe we're proposing a very attractive
10 building design. It comes very close and I'll get --
11 when I say "close," it's not there to meet
12 St. Charles' requirements on materials, and
13 projections, and recessed spots in the building.
14 You know, we obviously believe that this is
15 a very good location for us, underserved area for
16 quality childcare, and we're very anxious to have an
17 opportunity to construct and operate a school in
18 St. Charles.
19 The three main things we're requesting
20 tonight is we're amending the existing PUD to allow
21 childcare as a special use. We're also asking for
22 preliminary plan approval under the PUD, and then,
23 additionally, we're asking for final subdivision
24 plat approval.
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1 This is basically just -- I'm guessing it
2 became a remnant parcel of that overall development
3 that for whatever reason never became platted. So
4 this will officially make it a lot within that
5 subdivision, but it's not dividing it up in any way;
6 it's just making it of record via a plat.
7 I mentioned that we were very close to
8 meeting, you know, all the requirements of the City
9 code. The three items that we're asking for
10 deviations on as part of this request, the first one
11 is from the 8-foot-wide foundation planting strips
12 around the building. Now we're providing that in
13 front of the building, and we certainly can do that
14 because it's between the parking lot and our
15 building, but the three other sides of the building
16 that would be required to have those planting strips
17 are all playground. Consequently, not a very good
18 mix with children and low-rise plantings.
19 We feel with the large expanse of green area
20 around it and then our perimeter plantings that we
21 are supplementing the required plantings in kind of
22 a taller, different measure.
23 That's probably the biggest variation we're
24 requesting, and we feel we've got a pretty good
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1 reason for it, and that is that low-rise plants and
2 children don't necessarily mix, and it wouldn't be a
3 long-term solution if we were to put plants there.
4 The second item we're requesting deviation
5 on is our front facade does not quite meet the
6 projection or recess that's at least 3 feet deep for
7 20 percent of the facade.
8 What we're trying to request your approval
9 of in lieu of that is we've created porch areas that
10 meet the 20 percent requirement. And the reason we're
11 asking for that as opposed to actually projecting
12 the building out or recessing it in is the majority
13 of that front is classrooms, and it would basically
14 create bump-outs or indents within our classrooms,
15 and we've got a very specific layout of our need
16 package and the little kind of centers that are
17 created within each individual classroom where
18 projections -- I mean, it's not an insurmountable
19 problem, but it creates difficulty in operating
20 those individual rooms.
21 So we feel -- we're not trying to get out of
22 spending money or altering the design of our building,
23 but we're trying to do it through porches that
24 aren't -- they project the same distance, but they're
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1 not -- you know, they're overhangs without the full,
2 you know, depth of the wall that comes out the 3 feet.
3 The third deviation that we're requesting is
4 kind of really caused by just the configuration of
5 the site, and that is that our main entrance does
6 not face Bricher Road. And the main reason that is
7 the case is because we're not allowed access onto
8 Bricher; we have to access this internal loop road.
9 And in order to do that we've kind of had to orient
10 the building backwards to the street so we could get
11 the parking lot in front.
12 If we tried to put the parking lot right in
13 front, you'd have to have an access that immediately
14 you'd come in the loop road and have to take a very
15 quick left into the parking lot, which would probably
16 cause the transportation department and engineers to
17 dislike that. Additionally, we would then have a
18 dead-end parking lot. Whereas, with this turn
19 design it allows us to have two drives.
20 Actually, I don't know what happened --
21 Ellen pointed this out in our submittal, but we had
22 originally laid this out where I had the two drives
23 aligning with drives across the way, kind of created
24 a T intersection. That's one of the comments, and
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1 we've said we'll make revisions just to make a better
2 flow out of the Goodyear parking lot so it's more of
3 a T intersection there.
4 Which reminds me of another item that Ellen
5 had mentioned to us, and that is because the back of
6 our building is facing the road, we have added some
7 features and improved our finishes, but we've also
8 agreed that we're going to add a couple gables to the
9 roof back there to help break up, you know, the look
10 of that larger mass of building on the back. But it
11 does have like an appendage of two classrooms that
12 stick out that helps break up the roofs, too, so we'll
13 put a gable on each side of that which will add more
14 interest to the back elevation of the building.
15 Again, we're kind of -- we're facing in but
16 we're also facing the other businesses within the
17 development, and the fact that, you know, there's
18 not access onto the public road kind of causes us to
19 turn the building around and face it, you know, kind
20 of backwards from what you anticipate we would do to
21 lay this building out.
22 I think that is pretty much my presentation,
23 and I'd be happy that answer any questions.
24 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Great. Thank you.
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1 Thanks very much.
2 Plan Commission?
3 MEMBER MACKLIN-PURDY: What is the actual
4 address of the -- that the property is going to be?
5 Because all it says is Bricher and --
6 MR. FINNEMORE: I don't know if that's
7 been --
8 MS. JOHNSON: The address will be assigned
9 by the building commissioner and fire department.
10 Usually, the address is based off of the street that
11 provides access, so it will probably be a Bricher
12 Road access.
13 MEMBER MACKLIN-PURDY: Well, the reason why
14 I ask is because I know that across that little
15 access road, Urban Counter and the liquor store, if
16 the fire department actually puts the address in,
17 it's interesting because they couldn't find them
18 when they went to do the inspection because they
19 have a Bricher Road address, but they're really on
20 Lincoln Highway.
21 So this being -- especially this being a
22 daycare facility, I mean, that -- that's a concern
23 of mine if it has a Bricher Road access -- or
24 address that -- I'm hoping that they can find you.
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1 MR. FINNEMORE: I think it would be a little
2 irregular, but I don't think it would be unwarranted
3 to -- I'm sure there's city requirements for putting
4 your address on the front of the building. It may
5 be beneficial to add the address on the southeast
6 corner of the building so that as you're driving by
7 you can see it. I think that would be helpful.
8 I think, too, when the emergency response
9 people get addresses, they also get the name, you
10 know, of the business.
11 MEMBER MACKLIN-PURDY: Right.
12 MR. FINNEMORE: Which I think they're going
13 to see a lot of playground equipment right way.
14 It's a good point. I think the address on
15 the back of the building may be an added feature
16 that could really help us out there.
17 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Brian.
18 MEMBER DOYLE: First of all, what grades
19 will this facility service, grade levels?
20 MR. FINNEMORE: Well, we call ourself a
21 private preschool, but effectively we're licensed by
22 DCFS, which per most zoning codes and, of course,
23 licensing makes us a childcare facility.
24 So we start at 6 weeks old and technically
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1 go up to 12 years but not teaching school. That's
2 the afterschool program.
3 MEMBER DOYLE: I see.
4 MR. FINNEMORE: Depending on demand, we
5 rarely open with a private kindergarten, but
6 occasionally -- 50 percent of the time we grow into
7 a private kindergarten, but that would be the only
8 true grade we teach. It's basically infant/toddler
9 care and preschool.
10 MEMBER DOYLE: Maybe I should have said
11 ages. So there's afterschool care for ages up to
12 say 12?
13 MR. FINNEMORE: Correct.
14 MEMBER DOYLE: Not so long ago when my wife
15 and I were using a facility like this relatively
16 nearby, in the peak hours when parents are picking
17 up and dropping off their children, particularly
18 older children, the facility would set up cones in the
19 parking lot and have employees out there, teachers,
20 you know to assist with pickup and drop off, and the
21 cars would just sort of have a lane they would come
22 into without parking. And I was thinking about
23 that, recalling that as you were giving your
24 presentation, and it made me wonder about traffic
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1 flow during peak hours, ingress and egress into the
2 facility.
3 MR. FINNEMORE: Sure.
4 MEMBER DOYLE: So my first question is, is
5 it typical at your facilities that you do something
6 like that during pick-up and drop-off hours?
7 MR. FINNEMORE: We don't. I worked for a
8 number of childcare companies when I lived in
9 Chicago. I started in -- I'm getting old, too --
10 the late '80s with KinderCare, and they kind of
11 started it and most more national-type chains have
12 followed suit where they require parents to park
13 their car, bring their child in, and effectively
14 sign them in.
15 We have a keyed entrance system, and then they
16 bring them to their classrooms. So we don't create
17 sort of the kiss-and-ride lane that you might see at
18 an elementary school, and there's two, probably
19 three reasons for it. The first one being is that
20 kind of handoff of custody where there's no question
21 that your child was brought to the school, and then,
22 secondly, just the basic nature of -- like I said,
23 we start at 6 weeks, infants, toddlers. Obviously,
24 they need to literally be brought in.
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1 One of the additions that we've made to our
2 buildings that our franchisees ask for a lot is a
3 car seat room because people carry their sleeping
4 infant in a car seat, and they don't want to wake
5 them up until they hand them off, and then they
6 leave the car seat. They may come back and pick up
7 their own car seat, or a husband and wife share the
8 same car seat. It's amazing how many kids come in,
9 especially with the rear facing car seats, the
10 smaller ones.
11 Then really the third reason is to avoid
12 that extra staffing and laying out of the parking
13 lot that facilitates the drop-off lane. To really
14 get true drop-off lanes -- I recently worked for the
15 school district in Madison, and we're redoing some
16 parking lots in some existing schools, and the
17 length that's required to really get a good drop-off
18 lane is extensive. It really -- a site like this, I
19 mean, you could in theory push the building as far
20 south as possible and probably loop a lane in there,
21 but it would be a single one-way lane without a
22 bypass, and, you know, one person stays too long and
23 then the whole lane backs up. You've got to have
24 that bypass.
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1 So with sites -- and this is a fairly
2 substantial site as most childcare sites go, but
3 with space being limited, the need to drop off and
4 actually bring the child in, you know, just kind of
5 becomes the third reason why we do it.
6 MEMBER DOYLE: Well, I think -- so thank you.
7 I think that's important.
8 I'm glad to hear that that's your answer
9 because -- not that I'm opposed to kiss-and-ride
10 lanes, but given the layout that you have, and
11 given, you know, that that use would basically consume
12 parking spots, it would raise a number of questions
13 about traffic circulation into and out of the parcel
14 that -- you know, I think increasingly we have to be
15 mindful of these peak hour traffic issues that happen
16 around schools with the ways that people travel and
17 do transportation today.
18 One thing just maybe more as a comment, one
19 of the things I like about this site is there are
20 multiple points of ingress and egress, not just the
21 access drive off of -- is it Blackthorn? -- the main
22 one off Bricher there closest to 38. In the morning
23 near that BP, traffic can back up quite a bit
24 waiting for the light change there.
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1 So I don't know whether it's signage or just
2 advice that you gave to your patrons, but the site
3 provides amenities for them to exit out onto 38 or
4 go out by Taco Bell farther downstream where the
5 queue hasn't backed up. So that's just something
6 that I --
7 MR. FINNEMORE: If I could just add to that, I
8 think that's another kind of reason and justification
9 for the orientation of the building. Because the
10 way the exits are now, you know, there's a lot of
11 stacking distance if you're just trying to go
12 directly down to Bricher, but, also, you've got a
13 lot of options, and it draws you to those options.
14 Because there's a couple ways out of the parking
15 lot, you're getting onto a very low traffic road, it
16 just allows you to use those options.
17 MEMBER DOYLE: I just have a couple of
18 procedural questions as much for staff as for the
19 applicant.
20 You know, a lot of the questions that staff
21 raised you indicated your openness to addressing
22 those concerns. There were a couple of things I
23 wanted to ask.
24 One is from a procedural standpoint, this
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1 isn't -- I'm unclear. Is this an application to
2 amend the PUD to allow for a permitted use, or is it
3 an application to amend the PUD to allow for a
4 special use and then tack onto that a special use
5 application immediately as part of the same
6 application?
7 MS. JOHNSON: It's an application to amend
8 the PUD to add a daycare center as a permitted use
9 for this site.
10 MEMBER DOYLE: As a permitted use?
11 MS. JOHNSON: Yes.
12 MEMBER DOYLE: So it's not -- because the
13 staff -- it says "Special Use PUD Amendment."
14 MS. JOHNSON: Yes. So the application
15 itself is special use for PUD. It's the application
16 that's required to amend the special use for a
17 planned unit development.
18 MEMBER DOYLE: Okay. Henceforth, after we
19 approve this then daycare facilities will be a
20 permitted use in the PUD throughout the PUD?
21 MS. JOHNSON: Only at this specific location.
22 MEMBER DOYLE: Only at this specific parcel?
23 MS. JOHNSON: Yes.
24 MEMBER DOYLE: Okay. The second question I
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1 had had to do with the -- this is related to the
2 landscaping, but there's an interesting comment that
3 said the applicants request a deviation from building
4 foundation landscaping due to ADA requirements to
5 have sidewalks directly adjacent to the building as
6 well as the location of play areas.
7 So does that mean that in other instances
8 that foundation landscaping interferes with an ADA
9 requirement, or is it just in this case?
10 MS. JOHNSON: I believe that the requirements
11 in the zoning ordinance for foundation landscaping,
12 that landscaping has to be within -- is it -- 16 feet
13 of the side of the building. So in theory you could
14 have the sidewalks around the perimeter and then put
15 the foundation landscaping on the other side of the
16 sidewalk, but with the location of the play areas
17 here, that's where the issue is coming from.
18 MEMBER DOYLE: I see. And that's your point
19 about 4-year-olds running through the flowers?
20 MR. FINNEMORE: Exactly. It's funny. It
21 took me a couple years of building childcare centers
22 to realize there's many unique things about them
23 mostly due to the size of the occupants and so
24 forth, but one of them from a planning standpoint is
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1 you pretty much as a rule have a sidewalk all the
2 way around a childcare center because each room has
3 an exit. They're not necessarily required if you
4 sprinkle the building but they make sense. I mean
5 you take out classrooms individually; you don't want
6 to interrupt another classroom by passing through,
7 and just for a fire we can get out of buildings in
8 40 seconds because we've got a door and 15 kids and
9 two teachers and they're out.
10 And it makes site design interesting -- and
11 that exit, once it's there, it has to be ADA. So
12 it's tricky and you've got to do them just right so
13 they meet the maximum 2 percent grade without bringing
14 water back in the building. You know, because you
15 don't normally pave -- people do stoops and things
16 like that to get that separation from the natural
17 grade. Well, you can't do that in the ADA, so the
18 natural place for foundation plantings is right next
19 to the building. Well, that's where the sidewalk
20 needs to be. So then it needs -- I didn't know we
21 could go all the way out as far as 16 feet, but then
22 it puts it right in the middle of the playground and
23 now it's short lived.
24 MEMBER DOYLE: I could bring all sorts of
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1 minutia, but I don't think they're really material.
2 So that addressed my major questions.
3 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: All right. I have a
4 couple questions, and I think this might be for staff.
5 You mentioned that planting -- talking about
6 eliminating them around the building, the foundation
7 plantings, but you also commented that you did
8 extensive planting on the perimeter of the site.
9 I guess the question to staff is, I'm
10 looking at it, and I can't tell by looking at the
11 drawings -- page 46 of the line drawing -- but at
12 any rate, is that excessive to the ordinance what's
13 been done on Bricher Road?
14 MS. JOHNSON: The number of trees along
15 Bricher is definitely in excess of the requirement.
16 We've actually asked them to reduce that a little
17 bit because it's a little tight in there with the
18 number of trees that they're showing. So those
19 trees are in excess of the requirement.
20 They also have more impervious -- or
21 pervious area. So they have more space in general
22 with the large lawn.
23 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: I guess my question to
24 staff would be, is there additional landscaping
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1 equal to that might be required in the foundation
2 plantings, or have you not studied that?
3 MS. JOHNSON: We didn't really calculate
4 that out.
5 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Okay. I want to talk a
6 little bit about the articulation. I understand
7 that you have classrooms, and the front wall of the
8 building will have classrooms on the other side, and
9 having little divots and places for kids to hide
10 probably isn't the best idea. But when you're
11 talking about these porches, are you -- I was trying
12 to get a picture of it to see if I could see what
13 it's like actually.
14 You said there's an overhang -- that the
15 roof will overhang the front of the building and
16 then be held up by columns or something? I don't
17 quite get what you're talking about.
18 MR. FINNEMORE: I knew you were going to ask
19 me if the columns are there, and I am not 100 percent
20 sure on that.
21 MEMBER DOYLE: Either one, either of those
22 two elevations have the porches on the two far ends.
23 MR. FINNEMORE: I don't know if you can see
24 them from the side or not, but they're on the far
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1 ends, and you can see those kind of pilasters coming
2 out, and I'm assuming those are columns as opposed
3 to continuous back to the building. I'm trying to
4 get a side view that might answer that for me.
5 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: A west elevation or an
6 east elevation.
7 MR. FINNEMORE: I'm trying to see if I can
8 see it on there.
9 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: It's not on there.
10 MEMBER DOYLE: Wait, wait. Go back up.
11 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: It looks like a shed roof.
12 MR. FINNEMORE: That's at the main entry,
13 the shed roof.
14 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: So they're not shown on
15 the other elevations?
16 MR. FINNEMORE: I'm not seeing it up there.
17 I think we'll have to obviously help answer that
18 question for you by delineating it more clearly, but
19 if I look at the color elevations, the two columns
20 on both ends there -- well, there's four; two there
21 and two there. That is not on our prototypical
22 building.
23 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Staff, have you looked
24 at this?
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1 MS. JOHNSON: It looks like the one column
2 is a little darker. I think that's the porch
3 projection.
4 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: We just can't see it on
5 that drawing.
6 They've done the calculation -- I mean, he
7 said they were 20 percent shy of requirement. Is
8 that with these porch elevations?
9 MS. JOHNSON: Yes. The requirement is the
10 projections cover 20 percent of the facade, and I
11 haven't calculated that out to see if that would
12 equal the 20 percent.
13 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: I guess my question,
14 Ellen, is were these added after you discovered that
15 they hadn't met the 20 percent?
16 MS. JOHNSON: No. They had proposed these
17 at the outset.
18 MR. FINNEMORE: We proposed them to meet the
19 percentage but in a different not quite letter of
20 the code. But right here, that's the column.
21 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Oh, there you go.
22 MR. FINNEMORE: We zoomed in. Thank you
23 very much.
24 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Okay. And I just wanted
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1 to be clear. You had talked about -- you had
2 mentioned you talked to Ellen about aligning the
3 drive. Your intent is to align the drives with the
4 drives across?
5 MR. FINNEMORE: We had an original plan, and
6 then I adjusted the placement of the building a
7 little bit, and they moved the alignment. Until
8 she -- in fact, when I read her comments, oh, yeah
9 we aligned them and then I looked and we moved them.
10 So, yes, our intent is to revise to realign that.
11 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Finally, what about
12 signage? We talked a little bit about the address
13 and how --
14 MEMBER MACKLIN-PURDY: It's a monument sign,
15 isn't it?
16 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Where is this monument
17 sign?
18 MR. FINNEMORE: That's right down -- right
19 here down at the intersection.
20 MEMBER MACKLIN-PURDY: Oh, that's good.
21 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: The problem is these
22 screens are too small, you guys. We need 50-inch
23 screens. I can't see.
24 MEMBER MACKLIN-PURDY: Right here.
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1 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: But I'm looking for
2 dimensions.
3 And the reason I'm asking about this is for
4 a number of reasons. First of all, it is a daycare
5 center and it should be -- I guess my question would
6 be, is this monument sign equal to what is allowed
7 or less? And I think that's important.
8 MS. JOHNSON: I believe it's less. There's
9 a rendering of it in the packet.
10 MR. FINNEMORE: I was just trying to figure
11 out where that is here in the packet.
12 MS. JOHNSON: It's 7 feet tall, I believe.
13 And 10 feet is permitted, so it's shorter than the
14 maximum.
15 MEMBER MACKLIN-PURDY: I just think the
16 address should be on there.
17 MR. FINNEMORE: We could definitely do the
18 address on there.
19 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: I think that's a point
20 well taken. I don't think we realize how extreme
21 the comment that Laura made is. The Pride Pantry is
22 on the other side of this property all the way on
23 Route 38, and if that's a Bricher Road address,
24 who knows.
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1 MR. FINNEMORE: I think this is a
2 significantly better place than my idea of putting
3 it on the building. We can put it on both sides of
4 it kind of right below there or right above, whichever
5 makes the most sense, right above the "Primrose
6 School" or below the "Leader in Early Education and
7 Care." Probably above because we've got some base
8 plantings there that are required.
9 So we could add, I would say probably like
10 the font size of the "St. Charles" on that sign, you
11 know, whatever the address is, Bricher Road.
12 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: And then, finally, are
13 you the franchisee?
14 MR. FINNEMORE: No, I'm not. I work for the
15 corporation.
16 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: You work for Primrose?
17 MR. FINNEMORE: Yes.
18 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Have there been
19 franchisees chosen?
20 MR. FINNEMORE: They have not formally
21 signed their paperwork yet, but they're supposedly
22 within days of signing that.
23 Usually, most of our development is -- a
24 franchisee will sign up for a trade area market, and
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1 then we look for a site. We're doing eight schools
2 this year where we're proactively finding the sites,
3 and then our franchise team is sourcing the
4 franchisees. The two we're doing in Chicago --
5 because, quite frankly, four schools in Chicago is
6 crazy, but we've got 70 in Dallas Fort Worth. We're
7 very underrepresented here. The franchisees just
8 signed up for the Plainfield site two weeks ago. I
9 met the franchisees for St. Charles. They're just
10 getting their paperwork -- getting ready to write us
11 a check and sign their paperwork. So they're --
12 last I heard, you know, ready to sign.
13 Frankly, it's a better scenario for them in
14 a lot of ways because if they -- if we go find a
15 site for them, the minute we start spending on it,
16 they're on the hook for it, where here we're
17 spending the money, and if for some reason I got
18 denied or something fell apart, they don't sign up
19 and we've got the bills. So I think they're playing
20 that game right now, which is what I would do.
21 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Very wise choice.
22 Okay. That's all I have.
23 MEMBER SPRUTH: I guess just a quick question.
24 Have you reached out to your --
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1 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Taco Bell?
2 MEMBER SPRUTH: -- neighbors in the rear of
3 the property? Have you reached out to any of the
4 adjacent property holders?
5 MR. FINNEMORE: I met the Goodyear guy the
6 day I was up here to look at this site. He said,
7 "Oh, what are you going to build up there." That
8 was about as close as reaching out. We made our
9 notice to them, but we haven't had any sit-down
10 discussions with them.
11 You know, that's probably more what we
12 encourage our franchisees to do as the operator who
13 is going to become the neighbor who knows them.
14 That's not something I would necessarily do as the
15 corporation representative.
16 But, yes, they'll definitely get to know
17 their neighbors as the project progresses through
18 the approvals.
19 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: The residences on the
20 south side of Bricher Road?
21 MEMBER MACKLIN-PURDY: Is that Walgreen's?
22 Oh, it looks like there's a hair salon.
23 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: A doctor's office.
24 MEMBER MACKLIN-PURDY: An insurance company.
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1 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Okay. Anything else?
2 (No response.)
3 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: If we feel that we have
4 enough information to close the public hearing, I'd
5 entertain a motion.
6 MEMBER MACKLIN-PURDY: I would just like to
7 state that I think the address should be on the west
8 side. I just want to go on the record for that.
9 MR. FINNEMORE: Unless staff doesn't allow
10 me to do it, I certainly would put it there.
11 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Is there a motion to
12 close the public hearing?
13 MEMBER DOYLE: I move to close the public
14 hearing.
15 MEMBER PRETZ: I'll second.
16 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: All in favor.
17 (Ayes heard.)
18 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Okay. So let's move to
19 Item No. 6, the meeting portion of our agenda. And,
20 oh, it's the Primrose School, Northwest Corner of
21 Bricher Road and Blackberry Drive (John Finnemore &
22 Shodeen Family Property Company, LLC), Application
23 for Special Use to Amend Ordinance 1982-Z-6
24 (St. Charles Commercial Center PUD), Application for
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1 PUD Preliminary Plan, and Application for Final Plat
2 of Subdivision.
3 MEMBER DOYLE: So I'll make a motion.
4 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Okay.
5 MEMBER DOYLE: I move to approve -- recommend
6 for approval applications for special use to amend
7 Ordinance 1982-Z-6, application for PUD preliminary
8 plan and application for final plat of subdivision
9 for Primrose School, northwest corner of Bricher
10 Road and Blackberry Drive subject to resolution of
11 all staff comments.
12 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Is there a second?
13 MEMBER PRETZ: I'll second it.
14 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Any discussion on the
15 motion?
16 (No response.)
17 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Seeing none, Doyle.
18 MEMBER DOYLE: Yes.
19 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Pretz.
20 MEMBER PRETZ: Yes.
21 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Spruth.
22 MEMBER SPRUTH: Yes.
23 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Purdy.
24 MEMBER MACKLIN-PURDY: Yes.
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1 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Kessler, yes.
2 And that concludes Item No. 6 on the agenda.
3 MR. FINNEMORE: Thank you.
4 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: We've recommended
5 approval to the planning and development committee.
6 No. 7 on our agenda is additional business
7 for the Plan Commission members or staff.
8 (No response.)
9 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: It's a very lively group
10 tonight. Anybody have any questions about anything
11 coming up?
12 Next week -- I'm sorry -- next meeting on
13 the 18th, Russ?
14 MR. COLBY: Yes. We have Prairie Center
15 scheduled.
16 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Okay.
17 MEMBER PRETZ: What do we have?
18 MR. COLBY: Prairie Center.
19 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: Are we expecting a
20 presentation from the applicant?
21 MR. COLBY: Yes.
22 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: So we'll expect an
23 audience, as well?
24 MR. COLBY: I think so. It will be a public
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1 hearing.
2 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: It will be a public hearing?
3 MR. COLBY: Yes.
4 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: That will be an interesting
5 one. All right.
6 MR. COLBY: Just for the Plan Commission's
7 information, we'll be posting -- some of the plans
8 are already posted on the website on the project
9 page. We'll be posting additional information on
10 there over the next few days. So I will be sending
11 out an e-mail of information that's available for
12 you to review in advance of the packet posting
13 next week.
14 We're anticipating at this point that the
15 item will not be concluded in a single public
16 hearing because we have some items that will need to
17 be addressed as follow-up items after the hearing
18 date. So we're not anticipating that the Plan
19 Commission would conclude that item on the 18th.
20 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: All right. Will there be
21 anything else on the agenda that evening?
22 MR. COLBY: No. And we are proceeding with
23 the meeting date of November 1st for a Plan
24 Commission meeting which is what we discussed at the
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1 previous meeting. We have some items we're scheduling
2 for that date.
3 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: What about the meeting on
4 the 22nd?
5 MR. COLBY: At this point we're not intending
6 to schedule anything for that date.
7 MEMBER DOYLE: So do you already have an
8 idea of when the Prairie Center will come back?
9 MR. COLBY: It would likely be the first
10 meeting in December.
11 MEMBER DOYLE: Okay.
12 MEMBER SPRUTH: And then we were also
13 talking about November 15th. So there's only one
14 meeting in November then?
15 MR. COLBY: At this point, yes, we're only
16 planning on the meeting on the 1st. We have not yet
17 canceled the meeting on the 22nd, but we're
18 attempting to not schedule any items for that day.
19 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: All right. Very good.
20 I'd ask for public comment but --
21 MR. FINNEMORE: I'm good.
22 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: The public is good.
23 Paula, you good?
24 THE COURT REPORTER: I'm good.
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1 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: I'd accept a motion to
2 adjourn.
3 MEMBER DOYLE: So moved.
4 MEMBER MACKLIN-PURDY: Second.
5 CHAIRMAN KESSLER: This meeting of the
6 St. Charles Plan Commission is concluded.
7 (Off the record at 7:44 p.m.)
8
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15
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19
20
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1 CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER
2
3 I, Paula M. Quetsch, Certified Shorthand
4 Reporter No. 084-003733, CSR, RPR, and a Notary Public
5 in and for the County of Kane, State of Illinois, the
6 officer before whom the foregoing proceedings were
7 taken, do certify that the foregoing transcript is a
8 true and correct record of the proceedings, that
9 said proceedings were taken by me stenographically
10 and thereafter reduced to typewriting under my
11 supervision, and that I am neither counsel for,
12 related to, nor employed by any of the parties to
13 this case and have no interest, financial or
14 otherwise, in its outcome.
15 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my
16 hand and affixed my notarial seal this 9th day of
17 October, 2016.
18
19 My commission expires: October 16, 2017
20
21 _____________________________
22 Notary Public in and for the
23 State of Illinois
24
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